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Monday, May 5, 2014

The "Invisibles"

[Today's guest post by Susi O. Fanabba is part of our paid blogging program.]

A few weeks ago, we celebrated National Sibling Day. This Sunday, we will celebrate Mother's Day. And next month, we have Father's Day. For many people, including many pro-lifers, these holidays are a cause for joy. But I implore you to be sensitive; many people have come to dread this time of year. Children who have lost parents are an obvious example. Let us also remember the "invisible" sufferers:

Those "only" children whose siblings have died.

Those, like me, who have lost a sibling to abortion.

Those parents who have lost their only children, and are therefore unlikely to receive any recognition on the days set aside for mothers and fathers.

Those post-abortive women who relive their pain each Mother's Day.

Those single parents who are raising children on their own due to the loss of a partner. (My mom is in this category, having been widowed at a young age with four kids. While it's been almost 20 years, it's still painful for us on Father's Day.)

We as a movement should do more to acknowledge these "invisible" victims. If you know someone who may find Mother's Day or Father's Day difficult, please consider sending them a message to check up on them, etc. Many of my friends who have lost children have been so touched to know that their babies are remembered.

672 comments:

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MarcusFenix said...

If you're keeping score, sanity or actual truth/discussion points/common sense isn't on their side. :)

Suba gunawardana said...

LOL another "thousand" words solely on technicalities.

My point was why list your property anyway? As I said everybody has a life. How is that a bragging point?

MarcusFenix said...

Less than 300. You do know that "thousands" would have 4 digits, right?

I dunno..why list the shit you do? Because you can? seems like a valid point to me.

"As I said everybody has a life."

You clearly dont...and don't believe some should have it at all. Zing!

Suba gunawardana said...

If I don;t have a life for sitting here talking to you, Neither do you. So how is that an insult again?

MarcusFenix said...

And FTR...when i remove your quotes from that post, Word shows 176 words.

Being generous, that's about 9 times or so less than your silly claims. Hey, on the bright side, you're not more than 10 times wrong about something, which is an improvement!

MarcusFenix said...

You assume I have something else to do. You've already said you have a job and need to go to bed. You also assume i'm not at the keys doing something for work, and taking time to answer you isn't really a problem with 80-100 wpm speeds. :)

Suba gunawardana said...

It was Rainbow who said that.I set my own hours, & can sit here till morning if I feel like it

MarcusFenix said...

Oh, so we're back to the idea of you two being different people. Ok, if that works for you. :)

Suba gunawardana said...

It's always been that way. It was you. Calvin who keeps saying Rainbow & I are the same, but fails to provide proof for that allegation.

MarcusFenix said...

Nice try with the "it's you calvin"...i deny it, you get all snippy. I don't answer, you go "oh, it must be true!"

Silly wabbit. Tricks (spelling intentional, FYI) are for kids!

"but fails to provide proof for that allegation.'

since i didn't make it....i just happen to agree with it...then i have nothing to give you. Have you and your other personality tried asking Calvin yet?

Suba gunawardana said...

Are we back to "Calvin & Fenix are two different people" now?

MarcusFenix said...

Just wondering what happened to "the last word". Seems like you're not being very honest about that. :)

MarcusFenix said...

We were never away from that idea. Sorry!

Suba gunawardana said...

Are you apologizing for lying? OK apology accepted, but try not to keep lying.

Rainbow Walker said...

You just don’t pay attention, Calvin. You were way too busy spreading lies and deflecting.

Using babble doesn’t work. You don’t think that’s your problem.

“No...belief in religion is
tantamount to religion.”

Wrong. Belief in religion is belief in a fiction with no proof.

“Believing what someone tells you, unless it's religious...isn't actually religion.”

Wrong. Believers believe whatever they are told as a rule, as long as it’s from another believer. Rarely do they take the time to use their frontal cortex. They are stuck in the limbic system and amygdala.

And no atheism isn’t religion. It doesn’t believe in any system or supernatural thing and all conclusions must be
arrived at logically. Therefore it cannot be a religion. Because believers are not logical.

That’s how that works.

Stupidity may look cute to other stupid people, Calvin, but it won’t get you far in life.

MarcusFenix said...

I said we were never away from the idea of us being 2 different people.....how you got ANY of that from my statement is amazing, sad, ignorant, and incorrect all at once. :)

MarcusFenix said...

Isn't it still past your bedtime? I get confused between your accounts as to who can stay up late and which one has a bedtime.

I just can't seem to make Calvin pay attention. Maybe someone should talk to him about that. You could do that, rather than tell me. Dunno, seems legit right?

"Using babble doesn’t work. You don’t think that’s your problem."

Because you showed me where that was, clearly....excellent lack of proof, Sherlock.

"Wrong. Belief in religion is belief in a fiction with no proof."

Which would be great, if we weren't on a secular site, not talking about religion. God, it's like you don't even read these things completely.

"Wrong. Believers believe whatever they are told as a rule, as long as it’s from another believer."

Same thing happens to people who watch infomercials and QVC. What religion does that make them?

"They are stuck in the limbic system and amygdala."

Might big words there. Working Google overtime!

"Therefore it cannot be a religion. Because believers are not logical."

Clearly, your religion really misses you then...because you've been miles off target with logic for days.

"Stupidity may look cute to other stupid people, Calvin, but it won’t get you far in life."

Which, if Calvin were here, could respond himself. Still towing the idiocy line isn't getting you anywhere at all...in life, or otherwise. But you're good at it, so who am i to judge?

Suba gunawardana said...

You being a kid (in mentality if not in age) tricks are apt for you. But I am not doing tricks just telling the truth.

Anyway you have entertained me enough for one night.

Even if you failed to provide the concrete proof I asked, you gave away enough evidence by your behavior.

Goodnight. For real this time.

MarcusFenix said...

"You being a kid (in mentality if not in age) tricks are apt for you. But I am not doing tricks just telling the truth."

I suspect that if the truth walked up to you while wearing a 20 foot tall neon sign with "TRUTH" on it in flashing letters and punched you in the mouth with brass knuckles, you still wouldn't recognize it. Just an opinion.

"Anyway you have entertained me enough for one night."

I aim to please. I appreciate your masochistic nature, in coming back so often.

"Even if you failed to provide the concrete proof I asked, you gave away enough evidence by your behavior."

Because someone trolling you on the internet would NEVER happen under any other conditions, right? :)

"Goodnight. For real this time."

Oh, hold on. Rainbow said it was HIS bedtime. Now you're saying YOU'RE going to bed for real.

As Alice would say, curiouser and curiouser.

AmyE said...

Ugh... stop it. Stop dragging mental health into it. both of u. can't we start with a blank slate?

MarcusFenix said...

I just don't think subawalker can. It'd be nice, but i think they're far past the point of rational discussion. :(

Suba gunawardana said...

Grasping at straws I see… As I said I go to bed when I feel like it.

Amusing to see that it’s you who keep calling yourself a troll & a bully; and characterize others’ interaction with you as masochistic. Some kind of unfulfilled need for control there...

Looks like you need to refine that “sadistic”
technique, particularly your attempts at manipulation, which are rather transparent. If you are as bad-ass as you imagine yourself to be, people would
not continue to find you entertaining.

I have met many real trolls on Care2 (such as homophobic bigots, one of whom was neglected the last 2 days because of
you). Even they have some knowledge and
opinion on the topic. In that regard you do have the distinction of staying on
a debate while unable to grasp points on topic.

MarcusFenix said...

"Grasping at straws I see… As I said I go to bed when I feel like it."

And said you were going to bed on account #2. It's not really grasping at that point.

"Amusing to see that it’s you who keep calling yourself a troll & a
bully; and characterize others’ interaction with you as masochistic."

It's odd...you don't seem to grasp the idea that i'm quoting your own words. That's like the 7th time in a day, at least, that you've not been able to grasp a simple concept like this. It's almost pathetic.

"Looks like you need to refine that “sadistic” technique, particularly
your attempts at manipulation, which are rather transparent."

If i needed to refine it...you wouldn't bother responding. But here you are....like clockwork. Thanks anyway though!

"I have met many real trolls on Care2"

You actively go looking to be made fun of...that really is something, there.

" Even they have some knowledge and opinion on the topic."

And i have those. You squandered the change by talking about the same ignorant tripe over and over, and then calling me Calvin like 50 times. Any rational conversation we would have had is something you flushed down the toilet, along with likely whatever sanity and wit you may have possessed, long ago.

"In that regard you do have the distinction of staying on a debate while unable to grasp points on topic."

Says the idiot who couldn't grasp the concept of a non-sequitur 3 days ago.

If it makes you feel better to bloviate and act this way, I won't stop you. It's just more entertainment for me.

Suba gunawardana said...

Duh. Oppressing others when you can is YOUR personal religion. One doesn't need an "affiliation" to have blind belief.

MarcusFenix said...

So, you don't have any answer. Pretty much what I figured. Thanks!

Suba gunawardana said...

Just answered. Read again.

MarcusFenix said...

and your answer was....crap. What religion am i again? Somehow "Marcus' Oppressive Religion" didn't show up in a search anywhere.

The only oppression I see here is with your feeble and dim-witted attempts to be clever and pithy...which are neither clever nor pity. *yawn*

Suba gunawardana said...

Attempts at manipulation can be considered a form of oppression.

More importantly, forcing unwanted fetuses into birth to be neglected/abused as future children is oppression.

Most importantly, the concept of "we come first at whatever horrible cost to others" is true oppression.

MarcusFenix said...

"Attempts at manipulation can be considered a form of oppression."

Because i'm known the world over at being a mastermind of oppression. Whole nations tremble before me? Oooook.

That does have an interesting ring to it, but sadly...it's the ravings of a retard.

"More importantly, forcing unwanted fetuses into birth to be neglected/abused as future children is oppression."

Oddly enough, by changing the world "birth" into "death" would make you the oppressive one, were the tables turned.

Also, you're still preoccupied with all of this suffering. You don't get out into the sunshine much do you? Is it always a mopey Monday for you at the start of the week? Vitamins, i hear, can help chase away your blues.

remember those 400 million kids you cited? Do they all live in Texas? Because that's where those stats you showed me came from.

In case you're curious (i know you're not, because it's in one ear and out the other with you), that study stated that 7.1 million children are in the state, as of the time of the study. Less than 300k had allegations of any problems at all. Out of those...only 100 were investigated to even have any merit...and out of that...only 17k were removed from the home.

So, lets recap. 17k kids were removed from miserable conditions. Their problem was solved, and gladly so. But...do the math. Whats 17000, as a percentage, banked against 7,100,000? Here's a protip...it's a REALLY small number.

I'm sure you've noticed that 7.1 million is a FAR cry from 400 million. You couldn't even be bothered to give the actual reports for the stat you cited....and the one you gave was one that justified my answer. It's like you just don't want to actually make a point, and love it when i do. Thanks for that!

"Most importantly, the concept of "we come first at whatever horrible cost to others" is true oppression."

You just described literally 7 *Billion* people. How can i take that seriously, when this is what you give me?

Suba gunawardana said...

-I never cited such a study. There are plenty of stats on Childrens Bureau showing all the child neglect & abuse going on, both within the system & outside.


-Its not numbers that matter, but the mere fact that children are abused, and one major reason is being forced to birth against the mother's will.



-Death is not a bad thing by default. Death is bad ONLY if you have a good established life. If the only potential life available is one full of misery, death is a better option than life.

DianaG2 said...

Atheism is not lack of belief.

A = "without"

theos = "god"

Atheism is A BELIEF that there is no divinity.

DianaG2 said...

No, it's trusting those who abuse their authority, and thus do not have legitimate authority.

Your verb "fed" and your noun, "dogma" indicate you refer to someone who runs a rogue operation in place of legitimate authority. Sort of like a coup?

BTW: What's your end game here?

DianaG2 said...

Wow you got some kind of religious hangup here. Isn't this supposed to be a secular site?

I don't even know what this conversation is about. The design of this website makes me kind of dizzy. It's very difficult to read. I've only been following for a few comments.

DianaG2 said...

Skinheads are neither hateful nor bigoted.

DianaG2 said...

??

MarcusFenix said...

Sorry, your other ego did...but since it's all you anyway, i figured it was pretty much a "potato po-tah-to" deal.

"There are plenty of stats on Childrens Bureau showing all the child
neglect & abuse going on, both within the system & outside."

Then, you could provide those as proof, rather than give irrelevant studies which counter your statements. Would be a HUGE time saver for you.

"-Its not numbers that matter....."

Isn't it though? Consider for a moment the idea that you (or "you", if that works) cited a study about how Chicken Little's sky is in danger of coming down around your ears...and then have it shown that such panic was, in fact...massively overblown, not supported by the information, and that in fact...17,000 children were pulled from bad situations and could very likely be demonstrated that their lives were made better as a result.

"...gut the mere fact that children are abused..."

Unless you're going to suddenly cure the human condition in 7 Billion+ people, then it's an issue you will always have to contend with on some level. I don't neglect your borderline argument of relative privation, but you're trying to tie two independent items (child abuse and abortion) together as if they're really one and the same issue, and that by killing off a fetus, you save it a lifetime of suffering....that you have zero possibility of knowing if that will ever occur. It's basically cutting off your nose to spite your face, and telling someone it's really cosmetic surgery.

"one major reason is being forced to birth against the mother's will."

A claim of which you've not provided a shred of evidence for to this point. You've claimed it, made the "I've seen it!" statements, but the fact remains that child abuse happens for a multitude of factors. I'm totally fine granting you that your reasoning is one of them...but to say it's the primary reason is stretching a bit.

"-Death is not a bad thing by default. Death is bad ONLY if you have a good established life."

I disagree. Death is death. We can perceive it as one way or the other, but there's no difference in the worth of the lives of two people from polar opposite places in their life. A bum on the street, intrinsically, is worth the same as Bill Gates, or The President, or the person down your block that has a new, really nice Dodge truck. When one believes life is valuable (notice i'm not saying sacred...that would be religion), then death is always sad...but in the end it's a universal constant. Our projection of good or bad changes nothing about the aspects of death in the slightest. Only the number of mourners and how fancy of a casket you get.

" If the only potential life available is one full of misery, death is a better option than life."

Allow an easy example. I'm disabled. I can't walk well, can't lift things in my right arm, and likely will be dead in a decade from renal failure, an aneurism, total organ shut down, heart attack, or any other number of bad things....and yet, as much as i go through, i don't give a crap. I'd rather live every day feeling like crap than die and give up. Death is an -easy- option...but using suicide (or, abortion, in the case you're talking about) as an option is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

We just don't see eye to eye on this.

Suba gunawardana said...

LOL something almost like a real rebuttal this time. As I said, you just might learn a couple of things if you let go of that religion for a moment.

-Not going to spoon-feed you again. Look up the abuse stats for yourself if you wish, they are available on public resources such as Children’s Bureau & Childhelp,

-If the number of children abused is a thousand rather than ten thousand, that does NOT make child abuse acceptable. “Only a
thousand” makes absolutely no difference to the children being abused. If it’s only ten, that’s ten too many.

-The human condition of 7 billion IS a huge problem, and adding more people is not the answer. That abuse is bound to happen is no reason to knowingly condemn MORE children to abuse. When abuse is preventable, there's no reason not to.

Death on the other hand is inevitable to all, and it’s futile to try to avoid death; extremely stupid & inconsiderate to force OTHER people into life to assuage your own fear of death.

-I disagree with the concept of intrinsic value. Some people are worth more due to the extent of help they provide others, and some are worth less due to the suffering they bring to others. A child-abuser or animal-abuser is worth far less to me than, say, a rescue operator, healer, or abortionist. For example if you enjoy the suffering of others as much as you claim to, you are worth less than, say, my husband, who makes an active effort to alleviate pain in others.

Suba gunawardana said...

Yes, kind of like Christianity, or the forced-birth movement. In addition to the fact that they abuse authority and cause harm through dishonest tactics, their very principles are oppressive & harmful.

No endgame. Just having a meaningless conversation with Fenix/Calvin to pass time. I came here expecting a real
debate on abortion but so far no takers.

Suba gunawardana said...

For once I agree with you. This site is so hard to navigate. I usually post on Care2, which is much easier to navigate & see comments but too many annoying ads.

Suba gunawardana said...

Maybe not the original skinheads but nowadays they certainly stand for hate.

MarcusFenix said...

LOL something almost like a real rebuttal this time. As I said, you just
might learn a couple of things if you let go of that religion for a
moment."

You'd might get an actual rebuttal if you quit making nonsensical and moronic quips about religion and other things which don't apply. Food for thought.

"-Not going to spoon-feed you again. Look up the abuse stats for yourself
if you wish, they are available on public resources such as Children’s
Bureau & Childhelp,"

I read the stats you provided, and rebutted them. If you want me to read something else, then I'm going to use your own words...you've made the claim, now back it up. Onus probandi. Go for it.

"-If the number of children abused is a thousand rather than ten thousand, that does NOT make child abuse acceptable. "

No. It's absolutely unacceptable. You've missed the point though...you've blown it up to such epic proportions as to make it seem like its many, many times larger than it is...and then tied your view of abortion in with it. *That* was my point.

"“Only a
thousand” makes absolutely no difference to the children being abused. If it’s only ten, that’s ten too many."

Agreed. But if it's a thousand.....which is still a thousand too many....it's NOT 400 millon children being abused horribly, and for all time.

"-I disagree with the concept of intrinsic value."

You base it off of what a person can do, or what they offer, or their actions. In that line of thinking, disabled people can't do something you can, so...they're worth less than you.

That is called ableism. It's absolutely discriminatory.

The people who abuse animals or kids...do they not deserve to be given a chance to change their ways? Or is punishment the only way out? Your line of thinking makes them worth nothing to you...but it changes nothing about the intrinsic value of life itself.

"For example if you enjoy the suffering of others as much as you claim
to, you are worth less than, say, my husband, who makes an active effort
to alleviate pain in others."

I didn't claim anything of the kind...another reason why i'll call you an idiot and why you'll get less of a response. I was talking about my own pain and issues....i certainly don't enjoy those things, and thinking i do is completely off point and incorrect. I enjoy talking trash to you...but that's a vastly different playing field there. :)

Other than your response, you've given no reason why one life is worth less than another. It's a nice personal view, but...the idea that life is worth having, and should be protected, is much more universal than your view...and one i accept as being correct.

Your response is why you don't get better ones from me. You just miss the point, or reconstruct them based on faulty readings and then wonder why you get the replies you do. Comprehension is key.

Suba gunawardana said...

OK,Onus probandi. Prove YOUR claim first that Rainbow and I are the same person, and I will be more than happy to pull the stats.

“you've blown it up to such epic proportions as to make it seem like its many, many times larger than it is...”

I never mentioned numbers. Rainbow did. You are still trying to exploit what you perceive as a weak point by rebutting Rainbow’s points to me. Make that point to him. My point remains that: the fact that abuse happens is what matters, not HOW MANY are abused.

“Agreed. But if it's a thousand.....which is still a thousand too many....it's NOT 400 millon children being abused horribly, and for all time.”

So what? Don’t need to knowingly make it 2000 by forcing another 1000 unwanted fetuses into birth.

“You base it off of what a person can do, or what they offer, or their actions. In that line of thinking, disabled people can't do something you can, so...they're worth less than you.”

Wrong. I base it on the kindness and compassion a person has, how much “goodness” (for lack of a better word) they bring to others around them. A disabled person who cannot lift a finger can still be loving & kind. A person who runs a huge organization can still be an asshole & worth less than the former.

“That is called ableism. It's absolutely discriminatory.”

So what? Your attitude is discriminatory to those weaker than you, i.e. women children animals, based on WHAT they are. Mine is discriminatory based on how people of sound mind CHOOSE to behave. To me the latter seems far more ethical than the former.

“The people who abuse animals or kids...do they not deserve to be given a chance to change their ways?”

No. Protecting future victims is far more important than giving a proven asshole a second chance. Seconf chances hardly ever work out anyway. They get out, laugh at the people who let them out & abuse more children.

“Or is punishment the only way out? Your line of thinking makes them worth nothing to you...but it changes nothing about the intrinsic value of life itself.”

If life has intrinsic value it should be fair to ALL life, not just human life.

“I didn't claim anything of the kind...another reason why i'll call you an idiot and why you'll get less of a response. I was talking about my own pain
and issues....i certainly don't enjoy those things, and thinking i do is
completely off point and incorrect. I enjoy talking trash to you...but that's a
vastly different playing field there. :)”

You are a self-proclaimed bully & sadist, which implies you enjoy the suffering of others. Your wish to forcefully add more children to a situation rampant
with abuse, shows that you don’t care about their suffering whether you enjoy
it or not.

“Other than your response, you've given no reason why one life is worth less than another. It's a nice personal view, but...the idea that life
is worth having, and should be protected, is much more universal than your view...and one i accept as being correct.”

Popular does not mean ethical or correct.

"Your response is why you don't get better ones from me. You just miss the
point, or reconstruct them based on faulty readings and then wonder why you get the replies you do. Comprehension is key."


Wrong. A skilled debater can address any and all arguments successfully without whining about how bad the opponents' response was. If the point is weak or stupid, makes it that much easier to rebut. Everything else is an excuse to evade rebuttal.

Rainbow Walker said...

There is confusion here about conjoined twins.

It seems many on his thread seem to think a doctor needs consent from one [or both twins] for separation.

First of all most conjoined twins who require medical separation are young, usually below five. If they lived to
adulthood with few problems they likely only require separation for personal comfort and leg room.

Children are not juridical persons and therefore cannot make medical decisions, the parents do. The decision to
separate is just like any other medical decision that a parent and doctor must make. However, a doctor can go against a parent or guardians wishes and do the operation. The parents can fight in court. We haven’t had a case like this yet,
but the UK has and the parents lost. The court always looks at what is best for the children. And sometimes sacrificing one for the other is the only viable solution. Unless you want both to perish.

In the case of adults once they reach that age the chance of successful separation is greater or if their health became compromised a doctor could separate them without their consent.

[http://pmj.bmj.com/content/77/911/593.full]

Furthermore, forced birthers always assume the child would want to live, even to the detriment of the other twin.

MarcusFenix said...

TL:DR.

Lemme keep it short for you, since anything past reading for more than 15 seconds seems to challenge your frontal cortex.

You call me Calvin, i state i'm not, then you say I *have* to be Calvin because I responded to your statement.

Brilliant logic there, Sherlock.

The rest, you're wrong AND pontificating over nothing.

You're welcome to make a real argument on either of your accounts, tough guy. :)

MarcusFenix said...

"Hahahahahaha! After dancing around the issue
for hundreds of posts;
trying all kinds of manipulative tactics including insults, false
allegations & wasting thousands of words on technicalities, now you
have finally RESPONDED to the same argument on which you repeatedly
tried to pull the “non-sequitar”"

Somehow, you haven't gotten it through your thick skull. Lemme help.

You didn't make an actual argument. You've made a bunch of unsubstantiated statements. I broke them down, responded to the non-argument anyway since clearly, you have no idea what you're doing, and left your arguments in the trash bin where they belong. Upvoting yourself over and over really serves no purpose.

Your entire view is a combination of utilitarianism and Eugenics. Oddly enough, even Peter Singer noted in the Violinist experiment (you do remember what that is, right?) that in a utilitarian society, the person would, in fact, be required to stay connected in any event.

The rest...god, its like you just keep saying the same things over and over again with nothing of substance.

It's great that you're persistent, but past that, basically what you've dropped here is the same huge, steaming turds that have been coming out of your mouth for a week or so.

Oral bowel movements..sounds about right. You're welcome.

purrtriarchy said...

Alejandra Guilmant

You won't be disappointed.

Suba gunawardana said...

A whole bunch of insults & repetition, without an ounce of substance. Not worth my time.

All of my points still stand. You are free to respond if you ever feel less muddled...

MarcusFenix said...

Wow, bingo. An Esquire cover is nice too! :)

My better half is watching ANTM...i'm kinda eh about it, but...yeah.

Slight twist. Trisha Hershberger. Thoughts?

MarcusFenix said...

You realize that repeating my complaint about you is, in fact, repetition. Love the irony involved.

I've responded. Repeatedly.

By your logic, since you didn't deny it, I must be right. Thanks for conceding the argument!

Rainbow Walker said...

This boy’s a laugh riot.

Of course you didn’t read it. You have no rebuttal. And you say my frontal cortex has problems? You’re the believer.
More activity in the limbic and amygdala.

And if I’m wrong why can’t you prove it? Because you cannot rebut logic.

Thank you for acknowledging me as
a guy, Calvin. Suba is a woman, but then you knew that. And I’ll debate any of
your avatars.

MarcusFenix said...

And you're a barrel of laughs. We're all laughing, just some of your multiple accounts can't understand why.

"And if I’m wrong why can’t you prove it? Because you cannot rebut logic."

I've done so, on your Suba account over and over. I've gone over yours as well. Why do you need me to repeat things 20 times? Problems understanding it?

"Thank you for acknowledging me as
a guy, Calvin"

Please let him know that you think it's good I've made that decision for him. Isn't that awkward?

"Suba is a woman, but then you knew that."

Actually, i stated to your other account there that I thought you were a G.I.R.L.

Clearly, that went over your head. Twice now. :)

"And I’ll debate any of
your avatars."

You've yet to do so now...don't make promises you can't keep.

Rainbow Walker said...

“I've done so, on your Suba
account over and over.”

You haven’t done it with Suba, and you haven’t done it with me. And you know Suba isn’t my account, Calvin. That’s why you ignore, lie and repeat. Because you have no argument. Just stupidity
and lies.

“Isn't that awkward?”

Only for you, Calvin.

“Actually, i stated to your other account there that I thought you were a G.I.R.L.”

More leveling and insults. Of
course that’s all you have left since OZ is burning and you have been unmasked.
You can get help for your disorder Calvin.

“Clearly, that went over your
head. Twice now. :)”

Keep dreaming. The more you say, the more childish and stupid you appear.

“You've yet to do so now...don't make promises you can't keep.”

Sound just like the children I
treat. And yes we have debated all your personalities, Calvin. If you had a rebuttal, you would have made one by now. I’m waiting.

MarcusFenix said...

"You haven’t done it with Suba, and you haven’t done it with me."

Yup, cortex issue. Got it.

" And you know Suba isn’t my account, Calvin."

Well, Calvin on LAN knows you're not, and i agree with his assessment. Of course, you've only whined about this for days and given nothing else but excuses, but that's ok. Keep doing it!

"Only for you, Calvin."

We really need to get your eyes checked, among other things...it's like you can't actually read that he and I are not the same person, despite it being said dozens of times. If your eyes are going out, gramps, give um a rest. :)

"More leveling and insults."

Actually, it was just equating that i think your other account is a dude, like you. Look up that acronym, should clear it right up for ya!

"Of
course that’s all you have left since OZ is burning and you have been unmasked."

While i do appreciate a classic reference (or, you watch OUAT), there's nothing -to- unmask. The only thing that really rings true as being fictional, like Oz, is your view absolute lack of coherent and consistent arguments. But, thanks for the Wizard reference, it's nice!

Would point out...in the end, the Wizard actually was right about things concerning the other characters. Don't think i didn't notice the symmetry in the statement. :)

"Keep dreaming. The more you say, the more childish and stupid you appear."

Says the internet tough guy, who pretends to be a chick, and then whines about things and upvotes yourself. It's fine to admit you have more than one account, and that you just do it to upvote and look ridiculous.

"Sound just like the children I treat."

Yes, because as a psychologist, non-bar acknowledged lawyer, computer programmer, fireman, astronaut, police man, ninja, and futuristic cyborg, you've done it all. You've made way too many claims about your "business" for us to really engage that much more than just a roll of the eyes.

" And yes we have debated all your personalities, Calvin."

-Insert repeat response here.-

" If you had a rebuttal, you would have made one by now. I’m waiting."

Well, then you can lessen the wait of having to get me to retype a weeks worth of posts by going back and reading them right here, on the page all on your own. Saves me time from having to type it all over again, and gives you a chance to not be a complete retard and miss the point, which i'm pretty sure you'll do anyway. Notice that by telling you to read them again, since they're here already...i don't need to go over it all again, and it bypasses your claim that i've not made them...since they're all actually here.

Please though, keep waiting, if it makes the stupid burn any less.

Rainbow Walker said...

Saying things over and over? Looking in the mirror?

“Upvoting yourself over and over really serves no purpose.”

Now we know what he’s doing. Of course he has so many avatars.

“Your entire view is a combination of utilitarianism and Eugenics.”

This is an old line. This actually what you are trying to do, in a systematic way. You only see things by their value, not in context of rights or suffering.

The violinist schlep has long been thrown out. There are multiple arguments against this. Look up natural–artificial,
conjoined twins, different burdens, artificiality, duty to sustain, tacit consent, responsibility, stranger versus offspring, killing versus letting die
and intending versus foreseeing arguments.

MarcusFenix said...

So, JDC, me, PJ, Adam, Ingrid, Calvin and like 5 other people are all me, responding to one another on multiple websites.

That's a LOT of typing, even for me. You do realize how physically impossible that is, even for someone as good as me, right?

"This is an old line."

It's also not one you reject, or claim is false. Deflection is not rejection.

"You only see things by their value, not in context of rights or suffering."

Oddly, you're actually half right. I do see things by their value, just like you and everyone else on the planet. If you were unable to do this, you could never make a value distinction or judgment. You could never actually do much of anything, because in a place where all things are equal and all points are moot by this virtue, every path is the right one. Since i clearly can make those judgments, based on specific information and value systems, you'd be wrong otherwise.

I see rights and suffering in somewhat the same light. Both are not permanent. Both can be rejected, self sustaining, or many other things. Your rights, no matter how absolute you may think they are, really are nothing more than values ascribed to you by someone else, or in some cases yourself. Suffering is the same, in as much as you can ascribe it to yourself and become mired in it, or...you can reject it and rise above. That's not a claim of ease or success. No one, ever, is promised life will be easy or successful. Your rights, your property, everything...can be stripped from you in some fashion or another, outside of your intrinsic worth as a human (and likely a smaller subset of items, but..very small subset).

I choose to not suffer. I tell people to choose the same. You become preoccupied with it not being there ever....but in reality, there's never a time where you can eradicate it. You deal with it, you face it, and you do the best you can.

"The violinist schlep has long been thrown out."

Then why do you keep using it on Suba's postings? If you were indeed 2 different people, you'd have likely mentioned "hey, that argument has been busted repeatedly!". Clearly, that is NOT the case. Thompson, after making her "In Defense of Abortion" case, also generated other thought experiments, including the seed and screen window case. Those, also, have been run through the ringer. Even Thompson herself, over all of the arguments, concluded that human life begins at conception, but that it's ok just because.

No dice here either.

Suba gunawardana said...

"I choose to not suffer. I tell people to choose the same. You become
preoccupied with it not being there ever....but in reality, there's
never a time where you can eradicate it. You deal with it, you face it,
and you do the best you can."

No reason to PROPAGATE it by forcing more children into an overburdened system against the mothers' wishes.

MarcusFenix said...

Totally. I do have to admit though, she did a work up of Betty Boop (maybe Halloween of last year) that totally sold it for me.

As far as CH...or KU, or the general plus size model category...

We have it in our head (consider high fashion, or modeling in general) that rail thin, coked out, or whatever generalization you wish to use, is the real sexy look and that if you're not that, you're nothing. To me, that end of the discussion is nothing more than the skinny chicks in high school arguing that the girl beside them is fat, right after barfing up their apple from lunch.

Beauty comes in all shapes and sizes, and truly is in the eye of the beholder. I think, slowly, there are some adjustments moving away from the "skinny is required" area, but it's going to be a while i think before we harken back to the days of Marilyn Monroe and others who had an actual figure.

MarcusFenix said...

"No reason to PROPAGATE it by forcing more children into an overburdened system against the mothers' wishes."

No reason to blow the issue massively out of proportion, create a "Chicken Little" narrative, and so forth. Also no reason to state that "against her wishes" is a permanent, all encompassing mandate that never changes, can't be approached from any possible alternative, or that not wanting the child leaves only abortion as a recourse.

Notice I address the problem in a realistic fashion. You address it as if we're all doomed if we don't save the celery, or a bird, or w/e else you care to name. Your option is to solve a problem by creating another problem that's morally more pressing, in order for you to provide some internal rationalization that it's ok, so you can sleep better at night.

Suba gunawardana said...

As you well know I have NEVER advocated the "saving" of anything. I challenge you to point out any instance I did so. (Of course you would miserably fail, as with every challenge so far.)

YOU are the one hypocritically advocating to "save" fetuses at the expense of women & children.

MarcusFenix said...

Sure, you want proof? Here you go.

http://blog.secularprolife.org/2014/05/the-invisibles.html

Pages and pages of it. You've constantly made the comparsion. Your Care2 page is a nice bit of icing on top, to show its really your position. If you want, please feel free to read your own crap at length. There's no lack of it.

"YOU are the one hypocritically advocating to "save" fetuses at the expense of women & children."

Women AND children. So, we're widening the net now?

In being consistent, saving a fetus, in turn, works to save the child involved. Oddly, you can't save a fetus that is later born AND sacrifice them at the same time.

Consistency.....please stick to it. :)

MarcusFenix said...

BTW, just in case, the irony isn't lost on me that you started the argument as rainbow, and have been concluding it here.

Amazing how that works!

Suba gunawardana said...

As usual you failed with proof Calvin. You are pointing to my prior statements here, in NONE of which I advocated the "right to life" crap for anything, human or non-human.

Suba gunawardana said...

Funny, the very first time you EVER addressed me, you were responding to something I said to Tullia. C. By that logic are you Tullia?

Interesting that you never even admitted that was a mistake.

MarcusFenix said...

As usual, you keep talking to someone else who isn't here.

"ou are pointing to my prior statements here, in NONE of which I
advocated the "right to life" crap for anything, human or non-human."

Covered this in other posts...2 or 3, right?

Maybe we should tell Care2 about how you're totally fine with animals having no right to life. Bet that'd go over well. :)

MarcusFenix said...

Interesting, but you forget something. I responded to you, in her conversation, but...you've been responding back and forth between accounts since then. The "First time" part of the sentence should have been the give away that what you're suggesting isn't the same thing as what I stated.

It's effortless when you're this much of a cretin.

Unless you really think i AM Tullia? Do you? I mean, what's one more name to the dozens of people you believe me to be?

"Interesting that you never even admitted that was a mistake."

It's hard to admit to something when it didn't happen and doesn't exist. I know that's complicated, but I'm sure you can mange.

AmyE said...

Marcus, leave Suba alone. Even though they both started commenting at the same time, I think they're different people. Plus usually when people have fake accounts they try to put some distance between them at first. Besides, the what's the word? Dialect, word choice? I don't know. It's different though. Clean slate. You guys are doing too much arguing about who's who.

MarcusFenix said...

Yes, i'm the one in error for this. <_<

I'd be more than happy to do that, but...clearly the advice you're giving is sadly one sided...and wouldn't be followed by the dynamic double-account duo there.

You're welcome to your opinion, so there's that. Cheers!

Suba gunawardana said...

Go right ahead & ask any vegan fanatic on Care2. They will be happy to badmouth me.



BTW I was just thinking how much you sound like a militant vegan nut in your hypocrisy & blindness. Insert "animal" for "fetus" and all your arguments will be interchangeable, and still equally invalid.

Faye Valentine said...

I play a MUD... :X

MarcusFenix said...

Ooooo, which one?

Faye Valentine said...

One called Merentha...you probably don't know it...hopefully...

MarcusFenix said...

lol, why "hopefully"? :P

I believe i've seen it on the mud connector list though.

I still tinker with Materia Magica (restarted after being away for like 9 years) and i'm helping some players rebuild one called Sentience (though my role in it isn't large)

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